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hello fellow bees. I just noticed that there was a forum! I have used humble bee and me and Swift crafty monkey blog as a place to use to find ideas of things I might want to make, but I usually use the recipes a base to formulate something for my self.
any ways I have formulated shampoos and conditioners and leave in conditioners and danglers for my hair… but I have found a hole in my regime. last year I stopped chemically straightening my hair and as my naturally curly mixed hair I have found to deal with the tangles I have had to go from once a week to twice a week since I put detangling ingredients into pretty much almost all my hair products… but my conditioner is a deep conditioner that I leave in for a long period of time on the weekends….
so now after that long wind this is what I would like to make… Marie did these two posts last year: http://www.humblebeeandme.com/morning-glory-foaming-facial-cleanser/ and http://www.humblebeeandme.com/creamy-lavender-cardamom-cleansing-lotion/
and I was thinking that I could use that idea as a base for formulating a 2-in-1 for during the week for a much quicker mid week wash. so instead of a slightly conditioning shampoo a slightly cleansing conditioner…
This is what I have to work with (not a full list):
Emulsifiers and Thickeners:
BTMS25 (I will probably by some btms 50 at some point but 25 is what I have)
Conditioner concentrate (Incroquat CR Concentrate) (I have two different batches one from saffire blue and from creations from eden)
Ez Pearls (from Voyageur)
Cetyl Alchol
Cetearyl AlcholOils and Butters:
Macadamia nut oil
Cherry Kernel Oil
Castor oil
grape seed oil
shea butter
cocoa butter
avocado oil
rice bran oil
apricot kernel oil
fractionated coconut oilSurfactants:
SCI
Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate
Coco glucoside
Cocoa Dea
coco betineOther ingredients:
bamboo leaf extract
green tea extract
silk amino acid
marshmallow root powder
Distilled water
Aloe Vera JUICE
Vegetable Glycerine
sodium lactate
citric acid
panthenol
cetrimonium chloride
phytokeratin
polyquat 7
cyclomethicone
dimethiconedoes anyone want to bounce idea back on how to formulate a slightly cleansing conditioner?
It sounds like what you’re wanting is a cleansing conditioner. I have not made one yet, but I know Susan on Swift Crafty Monkey has one (maybe two) on her blog. If you search “Curl Junkie’s Daily Fix” it should pop up. It’s one of her much older posts. That should help you get started on one, customizing the ingredients to your inventory and hair needs.
Another way to go about it is to find a hair conditioner recipe on Marie’s or Susan’s blog and substitute about 5-7% of the water for a surfactant or surfactant blend.
Cleansing conditioners are great if you have wavy, curly, or coily hair! I use them much more than I do shampoos. I may have even posted a recipe on one of the other threads. Maybe the oldest thread under the Hair Care section??
May I add that you have some FABULOUS ingredients!! So many great things for hair!! Cynnara (a member here on the forum) needs to see this list! She will be drooling!
thanks… I actually didn’t get the email f the response because it seems to have gone into my junk mail… I did work something put and made it before I saw your response… I have read Susan’s blog… I guess I didn’t see it because I don’t pay a lot of attention to the copy cat recipes…. I just got so excited for the chance to chat with others about something I was thinking of making… I don’t get a lot of chance for that in my daily life.
This is what I did for my first try:
heated water phase:
Water: 30%
Aloe Vera juice: 15%
Phytokeratin: 2%
Glycerin: 2%
Polyquat 7: 3%Heated Oil Phase:
Btms 25 – 4%
Conditioner Concentrate – 3%
Cetyl Alchol – 2%
Avocado Oil – 2%
Macadamia Nut Oil – 2%Heated Surfactant Phase:
SCI – 10%
DSL – 5%Cool Down Phase:
Panthonol – 0.5%
Liquid Germal Plus – 0.5%
fragrance – 0.5%
silk amino acid 0.5%
bambo extract – 0.5%
green tea extract – 0.5%
dimethicone – 2%
cyclomethicone – 2%
cetrimonium Chloride – 3%I get to try it out mid week to see if it works for what I want
Oh and I am always looking for great hair ingredients cause mixed hair loves good ingredients and it is a heck of a lot cheaper to make a good product than to buy one
Hey Inertia! I am playing with the same stuff 🙂 I just made a heavenly conditioning wash (but not very fragrance appealing, lol) Did you find yours thick? I had to really add water to mine after I was done just to get it to a decent consistency. My ingredient list to play with is similar to yours….
I used
6% btms 225
3% stearamidopropyl dimethylamine
3% cetearyl alcohol nf
2% jojoba
2% evening primrosewater PHase
I brewed a concoction of dried herbs ssu
ch as marshmallow root, horsetail, hops, calendula in water, added the preservative at 1% liquid germall.
45% water
5% rose water
3%glycerin
15%aloe
5 % my brewed teaCool down phase
1% hydrolyzed oats
2% vegetable keratin
2% panthenol
1% germ all
3% e.o – rosemary, peppermint, clove, rose, geraniumIt needs a better smell, so I think I would increase the amount of rose water and seek out some hydrosols to replace some water. Otherwise it is a lovely creamy conditioner that leaves my hair soft and detangled and clean 🙂 I added about another 1/2 cup of distilled water to the mix just to make it pump for me.
You have some ingredients that I havent seen available where I normally shop in there. So I am not 100% sure why you are having a texture problem… Mine turned out fairly thick but it does pump. my normal conditioner which I formulated as deep conditioner is very thick and doesn’t pump.
I can say this though. Cetearyl alcohol is thicker and more fluffy than Cetyl Alcohol, so substituting the cetyl for the Cetearyl alcohol might help with the texture.
I am not familiar with this ingredient “stearamidopropyl dimethylamine” where do you buy it?
I have no experiencing brews of herbs.
Connie, I was wondering if you’d made your co-wash and how it was doing! I’m so excited that it’s working for you!! I imagine your herb mix is the contributor to the funky smell?? Rose water is really fragrant, in my opinion. I would have thought it’d drown out some of the smell. I have problems with the smell, too, when I make infusions and can’t seem to mask it. Also, the wee bits of herbs and such I can’t seem to strain out are pretty annoying…😝😂
I’m with inertia on the cetyl vs cetearyl. I think cetearyl feels waxy and prefer the cetyl, but that’s my personal opinion.
I’m also wondering why it’s so thick you can’t pump it?? Hmmmmm…..
Inertia, the stearamidopropyl dimethylamine is an anti-static, conditioning agent. You can get it at Making Cosmetics under that same name or at Ingredients To Die For under the name “Clean Locks”. Connie (Simply She) is the first Bee I know to use this product, so she has gone where no Bee has gone before….*cue Star Trek music*
Inertia, your recipe looks good, I think. I don’t have massive amounts of experience making shampoos and conditioners, but the formulation looks solid. Have you used it yet? I’d love to hear what you think of it!
Now, I have questions…haha! What’s conditioner concentrate? How long have you been formulating your own hair care stuff? I still buy stuff, mainly because I am a product junkie and want to try ALL THE THINGS, apparently. Haha! I’ve done some formulations, mainly conditioners for myself and shampoo for the hubby, but it’s still hit or miss with it turning out great, I think. They work, but they could be better. I guess I just need more practice, like with lotion-making. I make a mean lotion! Haha
I really want to try the cetrimonium chloride. Susan raves about that stuff!
Connie is awesome. I’m now wanting the “Clean Locks”. You all are bad on my wallet. Of course, I upgraded my phone and got a new tablet because of you all. 😆
Wow Belinda, there are a lot of questions to answer there. okay so here it goes.
1. I just tried it tonight. I quite liked it. It did what I wanted it to do which was to be a quick wash after my fitness classes after work. deep conditioning can be for the weekends. It was pumping but then I was having trouble getting it to pump so I am wondering if it was because it was a small batch in a big container or just a little thick for pumping. my deep conditioner I use on the weekend.
2. for the record I love Cetearyl alcohol… I use it in my lotions because I love that it gives a cloud like fluffy cushioning feeling, but for hair especially when you have a lot of conditioning emulsifiers i mean in my deep conditoner I alreay have 10% before adding the cetyl or cetearyl alcohol vs my lotion which is 4% ewax. Cetyl alcohol has more glide too.
3. I think just based off the off of the stearamidopropyl dimethylamine that it would have thickening properties too that is probably why it is so thick. because if it does have thicking properties you would have 12% of emuslifiers and thickeners… my deep conditioner has 13% of emulsifiers and thickeners and it does not pump which is fine I keep it in a tub.
4. the conditioner concentrate is what the two suppliers in canada that I can find it call it… though I am switching buying it from saffire blue (shudders after what they put me through last year I will not buy from them… to creations from Eden the inc is light ly different SB: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Stearalkonium Chloride CFE: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) PEG-40 Castor oil (and) Stearylalkonium Chloride
on susan’s blog she reffers to it as Incroquat CR
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2009/07/cationic-quaternary-compounds-incroquat_30.htmlI Include it for this reason “On its own, Incroquat CR is a good detangler, good anti-static, and great softener. It would make a good conditioner for normal or oily hair. Try coupling it with another cationic quaternary compound…
With cetrimonium chloride – great detangling, good anti-static, good conditioning features. A good conditioner for normal or oily hair.
With cetab – good detangling, good anti-static, good conditioning features. A great conditioner for people with really damaged hair.
With BTMS – good detangling, good anti-static, great conditioning features. A good conditioner for most hair types. ” from susans blog….I knew I wanted 2 main things from my condition: detangling and emollients… so I stock piled it it with detangles and lots of condition.
5. My diy background… I have always been a crafty and creative person. my introduction into diy toiletries and cosmetics was really one thing after another It started about 3 years ago around the time I started hoop dancing… with the cold process soap making…when I got the then I saw video on how to make lotion and decided to try .. though the first batch was a fail because I made a mistake by using a co-emulsifier as ad emulsifier but I quickly picked it up.
Wow Belina there is a lot here to respond to:
1. I used it last night after my fitness class and I really liked it…. it stopped pumping so I am not sure if it was because it was a little too thick or if it was too small of a batch to put in a big bottle or maybe I should just find a tub to put it in.
2. For the record I love cetearyl alcohol… I use it in my lotions where the base emulsifiers are at 4% plus 2% cetearyl alcohol it has a thicker fluffier feel to it where as cetyl alcohol is more glidey which I like for hair… plus my base for my deep conditioner is 10% plus 3% Cetyl or Cetearyl alcohol I have tried it with both no matter which one I use it doesn’t pump but it is much thicker with the cetearyl alcohol.
3. About the stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, I don’t tend t buy from making cosmetics because the cost to ship it to Canada is incredibly ridiculous… I tried at one point to see what it cost and shipping doubled the cost plus the rate of exchange. so it’s probably got going to happen and I haven’t seen a Canadian source. I have lusted over the list from ingredients to die for but I have not checked out how much it would cost to ship. pretty much what I am going to stay is just based on a guess. It looks like from what i see it looks like this product might add thickness for the product and if I am true that would put her emulsifiers and thickeners at 12% and mine at 13% was nowhere near pumping. Do conditioners need to pump… my opinion no but it depends on what she wants to do if she likes it I would just get a tub to put it in.
4. Conditioner concentrate: it’s what both suppliers I could get it from in Canada call it… on Susan’s blog she calls it Incroquat CR: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2009/07/cationic-quaternary-compounds-incroquat_30.html INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) PEG-40 Castor Oil (and) Stearalkonium Chloride though if you buy it from saffire blue (which I have resigned not to shop at anymore because they screwed me over really badly last year they don’t have any of the peg 40 in it where as the other supplier does have it so when I run out of the stuff from sb and start using the one from creations from eden I will have to see if it makes a difference. I include it because Stearalkonium Chloride has detangling propertis and I pretty much wanted detanging and conditioning properties.
5. my diy history: just fyi I have always been a craftsy and creative person whether it was knitting, trying to tat, cooking, home repair stuff like laying flooring if you can find decent information on how to do it I will most likely be willing to do so. So the diy toiletries and cosmetics was right down my alley to begin with. So really there are a lot of reasons why I started to do this but that is not the question… I start the diy about three years ago when I started doing hoop dancing. I was buying cold processed soap from the farmers market. It’s not necessarily cheep to buy and I have skin rashes and skin sensitivities that seemed to pop up around the time I was being diagnosed with the two autoimmune disorders I was diagnosed with, which was 6 years ago. I sort of wondered if it was something I could learn to make myself because my skin liked it better than the regular store bought stuff… which lead me to find the soap queen videos on youtube. I decided to try it… and it was all downhill from there I read some books… after I got the hang of that I saw she had a video on the lotion… and thought I had most of the stuff just needed to buy a couple more ingredients. so I did but I had a mishap and bought the cetearyl alcohol 50/50 and it didn’t work… then I was frustrated because I was trying to find more information on emulsifying waxes info until I found Susan’s blog and shortly after found Marie’s blog. at that point it was a goner. after I got the hang of that I was thinking I might as well make conditioner it is much like making lotion… after I got the hang of that I figured I might as well start trying shampoo wich the first batch of that was a disaster so I figured okay why don’t I start with bubble bath which I don’t use ever but I thought it is something I could make on occasion from my nieces. So I started paying with surfactants because it is very different than making lotion based stuff. When I decided to stop chemically straightening my hair last year and then later that year just learn to take care of it curly I started trying to formulate more kinds of products for my hair… so how long have i been making hair stuff not sure somewhere between maybe 1 and a half years….
6. one of the reasons I am so adamant about making my own stuff is so I am not buying 20 different products to figure out what is best… so I try not to buy store bought things… only if it is something I haven’t used before and I want to get an idea of what it is and if it is something I want to try to make.
Wow Belina there is a lot here to respond to:
1. I used it last night after my fitness class and I really liked it…. it stopped pumping so I am not sure if it was because it was a little too thick or if it was too small of a batch to put in a big bottle or maybe I should just find a tub to put it in.
2. For the record I love cetearyl alcohol… I use it in my lotions where the base emulsifiers are at 4% plus 2% cetearyl alcohol it has a thicker fluffier feel to it where as cetyl alcohol is more glidey which I like for hair… plus my base for my deep conditioner is 10% plus 3% Cetyl or Cetearyl alcohol I have tried it with both no matter which one I use it doesn’t pump but it is much thicker with the cetearyl alcohol.
3. About the stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, I don’t tend t buy from making cosmetics because the cost to ship it to Canada is incredibly ridiculous… I tried at one point to see what it cost and shipping doubled the cost plus the rate of exchange. so it’s probably got going to happen and I haven’t seen a Canadian source. I have lusted over the list from ingredients to die for but I have not checked out how much it would cost to ship. pretty much what I am going to stay is just based on a guess. It looks like from what i see it looks like this product might add thickness for the product and if I am true that would put her emulsifiers and thickeners at 12% and mine at 13% was nowhere near pumping. Do conditioners need to pump… my opinion no but it depends on what she wants to do if she likes it I would just get a tub to put it in.
4. Conditioner concentrate: it’s what both suppliers I could get it from in Canada call it… on Susan’s blog she calls it Incroquat CR: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2009/07/cationic-quaternary-compounds-incroquat_30.html INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) PEG-40 Castor Oil (and) Stearalkonium Chloride though if you buy it from saffire blue (which I have resigned not to shop at anymore because they screwed me over really badly last year they don’t have any of the peg 40 in it where as the other supplier does have it so when I run out of the stuff from sb and start using the one from creations from eden I will have to see if it makes a difference. I include it because Stearalkonium Chloride has detangling propertis and I pretty much wanted detanging and conditioning properties.
5. my diy history: just fyi I have always been a craftsy and creative person whether it was knitting, trying to tat, cooking, home repair stuff like laying flooring if you can find decent information on how to do it I will most likely be willing to do so. So the diy toiletries and cosmetics was right down my alley to begin with. So really there are a lot of reasons why I started to do this but that is not the question… I start the diy about three years ago when I started doing hoop dancing. I was buying cold processed soap from the farmers market. It’s not necessarily cheep to buy and I have skin rashes and skin sensitivities that seemed to pop up around the time I was being diagnosed with the two autoimmune disorders I was diagnosed with, which was 6 years ago. I sort of wondered if it was something I could learn to make myself because my skin liked it better than the regular store bought stuff… which lead me to find the soap queen videos on youtube. I decided to try it… and it was all downhill from there I read some books… after I got the hang of that I saw she had a video on the lotion… and thought I had most of the stuff just needed to buy a couple more ingredients. so I did but I had a mishap and bought the cetearyl alcohol 50/50 and it didn’t work… then I was frustrated because I was trying to find more information on emulsifying waxes info until I found Susan’s blog and shortly after found Marie’s blog. at that point it was a goner. after I got the hang of that I was thinking I might as well make conditioner it is much like making lotion… after I got the hang of that I figured I might as well start trying shampoo wich the first batch of that was a disaster so I figured okay why don’t I start with bubble bath which I don’t use ever but I thought it is something I could make on occasion from my nieces. So I started paying with surfactants because it is very different than making lotion based stuff. When I decided to stop chemically straightening my hair last year and then later that year just learn to take care of it curly I started trying to formulate more kinds of products for my hair… so how long have i been making hair stuff not sure somewhere between maybe 1 and a half years….
6. one of the reasons I am so adamant about making my own stuff is so I am not buying 20 different products to figure out what is best… so I try not to buy store bought things… only if it is something I haven’t used before and I want to get an idea of what it is and if it is something I want to try to make.
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