Shampoo discontinued – making my own or finding another?

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  • #21926
    SimplyShe
    Participant

    woohooo made my first tiny batch! It was an adventure and I’m trying it out tonight:)
    I didn’t have crothix, so I added in cetearyl alcohol forgetting that it is oil soluble and I have no oils….I loosely followed Belindas posted recipe 🙂 I tucked in argan oil to dissolve it at 1% and it seems to have emulsified in the SLSa and amphosol CG. I guess the trial will let me know if it works 🙂 SO FUN…I blew 2hours on swiftcraftymonkey and this is the first time I really branched out on my own so I’m a little hyped up,lol.

    #21928
    Cynnara
    Participant

    WTG! I’m so excited for you! Worse, now I’m wanting to play. I’m thinking about a hair conditioner since my mind thinks it is easier. Lmao! Tell us how it works!

    I need to buy more surfactants. And extracts. And more more!

    I wonder if I make a cowash with a conditioner with either sci or a blend like sci & coco glycoside would work without being too heavy. Hmm.

    #21931
    SimplyShe
    Participant

    I’m thinking cowash next time too. I was just looking the idea up 🙂

    #21932
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    I still have not tried making a co-wash, simply because Curl Mart keeps running good sales. Plus I always have a coupon to put on top of the sale price, so I’m getting my fave co-wash for a pretty good deal. I also have all these other conditioners I bought to try and I use them as a co-wash in between my Curl Junkie co-washing. I need to stop buying stuff, but I don’t ever take my own advice.😜

    I think making a conditioner is more difficult than making a lotion. The oil phase is so small, it’s not even worth separating from the water phase, but I never seem to remember that until I’m actually in the process of making one. Conditioner whips up much faster than lotion, in my experience!

    Connie, I’m so excited for you!! *happy dance, happy dance* I can’t wait to hear how it does with your hair! I’m keeping my fingers crossed that your hair will love it! Great idea to put a little argan in for a bit of emolliency. I’m curious to hear how the cetearyl alcohol did in the shampoo. I’m guessing the surfactants helped emulsify that in as well as the argan?? Inquiring minds want to know!😁

    Twin, be sure to check the pH of anything you make with a glucoside (glycoside?) surfactant. They have a higher pH or raise the pH or something to that effect. Shampoo needs to be around a 6 or so, according to Susan, and all the glucosides are higher, if I’m remembering correctly. The higher pH will blow the cuticles of your hair open and make it dry, scratchy, tangly, and yucky. It will also irritate the heck out of your scalp, causing itchiness and dryness. You’ve gotta baby those curls you’re getting, not piss them off! SCI and cocamidopropyl betaine would be a much better choice in terms of gentleness.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by BelindaSK.
    #21937
    SimplyShe
    Participant

    Well, the cetearyl alcohol dissolved in the argan oil and it seems to have emulsified in the surfactants. I used it…jury is still out on if I like it. It had NO lather, smelled nice and seemed to make my hair squeaky clean. I am waiting to see what my scalp says. I had to really condition to get any softness back. My friend had the same experience. I’m not sure if she conditioned. I think next time I will use SCI in place of SLSa and get the crothix. I need to review what I can add to make it a little more moisturizing as well….maybe panthenol…..and find out what c14-16 olefin sulfonate is….

    #22152
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    Connie, how is your scalp doing with the shampoo? Is it angry again with yet another new product and ingredients, or is it a little bit happier than before? I feel bad you’re having such a tough time with all of this! The discovery phase of going CG is always tough, but for you it seems to really be extra difficult.☹️☹️☹️

    C14-16 olefin sulfonate is a stronger surfactant, kinda up there with sulfates, from what I’ve read, and good at removing build up. I have a shampoo from Organix that uses the C14-16 and I think it does a nice job of cleansing but is not something I could use on a regular basis. Well, really, any shampoo is not something I use on a regular basis, so I guess that’s not saying much! Right now, my hair seems to be going through a “phase” where it doesn’t seem to be happy with any of the products I’m using, so I’m contemplating cutting it short. It’s frustrating me to no end and I have too much going on to be messing with “diva” hair!! Not that that has anything to do with C14-16…..I’m digressing…..

    Connie, I wouldn’t worry about how much your shampoo bubbles, just how well it cleanses. But you’re right, if your hair feels stripped, you need to up the moisturizing or maybe make a co-wash with a very low surfactant level so you can switch back and forth between the two. My hair seems to like the co-washes with a bit of surfactants in them better than the ones that are really just straight conditioner, except in winter when the air is dry.

    #22161
    SimplyShe
    Participant

    So….I am absorbing Susans ebook on hair care. I am still going back to HairStories New Wash to get nice hair. I am currently seeking (with no success :() This one ingredient….Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine….. I think it goes by the other name cleanlocks….Sounds like I might need it from what I read. Maybe that’s why I can’t find where anyone else has duped this yet :). I am going to try another store bought cowash too. I used SheaMoisture but my poor scalp wasn’t impressed. I’m not sure what it doesn’t like but I am wondering if it is a surfactant issue. I have a bunch coming so I can play around soon 🙂 Come on voyageur!
    I was looking for the suds because my friend was insistent that it have some….and I hate to disappoint when she is just starting to dabble in DIY.

    On a side note…I need a course on how to blend scents…..when I try everything smells kind of ‘off’. Definitely not my strong suit lol

    #22185
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    Connie, I can’t mix scents either, so that’s why I like fragrance oils. They smell “purty”, I don’t have to mix anything, and I’ve not had any allergy issues so far with any of them. Cannot say the same for essential oils, unfortunately!!☹️☹️

    I’m wondering too if maybe you have an allergy or sensitivity to something and that’s why your scalp is reacting. If so, you get to play detective like me, make a bunch of stuff you may end up giving or throwing away due to an allergic reaction, and generally feel frustrated when everything you seem to make doesn’t work for you. But, when you find things that work, it’s like the angels are singing the “Hallelujah” chorus! That’s why I don’t really fall into the all natural, all organic, granola, blah, blah, blah category because I’m allergic to half of it! If it’s synthetic, man-made, fake whatever and it works for me…SCORE!! I’m happy and I’m buying more. So, try everything, even if some turn their nose up at it for not being NATURAL, and find out what works for YOU. That even goes for the CG method. Lots of curlies modify it to fit their needs and some say it doesn’t work for them at all. Find what works for you, even if it breaks a few rules. 😉

    And tell your DIY friend that bubbles don’t clean. They are just a cosmetic additive to give the appearance that surfactants are cleaning. At least that’s what they tell you when you buy the low-sudsing detergent for your front loading washer! Haha

    #22186
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    The only place I find the SD (I am on cold meds and my brain is on vacation, so I’m not spelling that ingredient!) is Ingredients To Die For and Making Cosmetics. Does Susan formulate with it? I have not bought any of her ebooks, just downloaded her freebie PDFs and spent hours on her website, but that is an ingredient I am not familiar with. I have seen it in product lists, but not come across it for formulating. It sounds somewhat similar to cetrimonium chloride or behentrimonium chloride, which both popped up when I did a search for where to buy SD. Maybe, if you can’t find the SD, you can use one of the other two to take its place.

    #22252
    SimplyShe
    Participant

    I’m still waiting for stearamidopropyl dimethylamine. I think this is crucial for my dupe to work, however I think I have the ratios figured out. Let me know what you think 🙂 I’m duping the ridiculously expensive New Wash from Hairstory.
    Heated Water Phase:
    48% distilled water (infused with extracts of nettle,horsetail, chamomile, calendula)
    5 % rose water
    5% rosemary hydrosol
    3% glycerin
    15% aloe
    Citric Acid to neutralize stearamido…. 5.88 to 1 of citric acid (how do I figure that out?)
    Heated Oil phase:
    6% BTMS
    3% stearamidopropyl
    3% cetearyl alcohol
    2%jojoba
    2% evening primrose
    Cool Down Phase:
    1% hydrolyzed protein
    2% keratin
    2% panthenol
    1% preservative (germall plus)
    2% left over…my extracts? and essential oils

    The original had BTMS listed near the end of the ingredient list, they also had sodium benzoate, isopropyl alcohol, gluconolactone and dicetyldimonium chloride (a polyquat?) listed.
    I really would like to make this work, if only for the satisfaction of figuring out how much it really costs to make it, lol. There are a bunch of SheaMoisture dupes on point of interest that i’m hoping I can work through and figure out why it makes my scalp dry. After I get this one sorted, of course 😛

    #22295
    Cynnara
    Participant

    You need a ph meter. Depending on the reading, you’ll add the citric acid to bring the ph level to the right level. Now, you could use the Ph Fix strips both low and high to help run the ph tests as they’re some of the better strips out there. But Ph meter is the best.

    Now the BTMS will help thicken the shampoo and condition too. So, the polyquat and the glucolactone will help condition the hair as well. Hmm. Try Lotioncrafter for either of those.

    Otherwise, I like it so far.

    #22300
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    Twin is bang on, as Marie would say, about the pH meter. You have to test product first, then add drop by drop the citric acid solution until it’s the correct pH. At least that’s how I’ve read it’s done. I have not actually ever done that so I have no actual experience in this.

    Also, I *think* cetearyl alcohol is part of the makeup of BTMS 50, so you don’t need to add it again. Check with POI to verify if that is correct, though. The sodium benzoate and gluconolacctone are a preservative system used in ECO cert products, which you have replaced with liquid germall plus, so you’re good there.

    The dicetyldimonium chloride is an anti static ingredient. You could sub cetrimonium chloride for this or leave it out if you can’t find either of them. I know Susan LOVES cetrimonium chloride!

    This recipe looks pretty good! I sure hope you can make it work or make something that works better!

    Have you found the sterimido…yet?

    #22303
    SimplyShe
    Participant

    I found the stearomido at ingredientstodiefor and caved on it :). It requires the citric acid at that ratio, as well as to ph neutralize I’m sure. I rechecked my order on its way and I do have a polyquat coming. BUT, I don’t have a pH meter 🙁 WHat am I gonna do??? oh no! (I wonder if there is one at work I can borrow, hehhehe, until I can get my own).
    I’m going to share the original ingredient list with you. They list the ceatryl alcohol out separately…Do you think its in order? I wasn’t sure…

    Water/Aqua/Eau, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Stearyl Alcohol, Dicetyldimonium Chloride, Gluconolactone, Rosa Centifolia Flower Water, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Panthenol, Rosa Canina Seed Extract, Equisetum Hiemale Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Calendula Officinalis Flower Extract5, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract5, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Oil, Keratin, Hydrolyzed Keratin, Menthyl Lactate, Ceteareth-20, Isopropyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Citric Acid4, Sodium Benzoate.
    Fragrance/Parfum: Cananga Odorata Flower Oil, Eugenia Caryophyllus (Clove) Leaf Oil1 , Aniba Rosaeodora (Rosewood) Wood Oil1, Rosa Damascena Flower Oil1, Myroxylon Pereirae (Balsam Peru) Oil1, Guaiacum Officinale Wood Oil1, Pelargonium Graveolens Oil1, Citronellol3, Geraniol3, Linalool3, Trisodium HEDTA2, Calcium Gluconate2, Phenoxyethanol2, Tocopherol2, Alcohol6

    #22305
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    What’s jumping out at me as I sit here and crunch numbers….

    They’re using BTMS 25, not BTMS 50. BTMS25 is made up of 25% behentrimonium methosulfate (and) cetearyl alcohol, whereas BTMS50 is made up of 50% behentrimonium methosulfate (and) cetyl alcohol (and) butylene glycol. So, 1) there is no butylene glycol in the recipe, and 2) behentrimonium methosulfate is waaaaay down the list, both indicating that it is the lower % emulsifier rather than BTMS50. So, if you have BTMS 50, your conditioner will feel much more conditioning than theirs simply because you’re starting out with more in your emulsifier. Adding the cetearyl alcohol will help with thickening your conditioner. To me, it feels waxy on my skin when I include it in lotions, so I don’t like using it. It may be possible for you to leave it out entirely, or sub with more cetyl, but that is your call what you want to do with that one.

    The other thing I see when I crunch the numbers is the preservative they’re using. Geogard Ultra has a usage rate of .75-2%. I’m going to assume the manufacturer used the 2% since they’re making a product with botanical extracts. Geogard is made up of approx 70-80% gluconolactone and 22-28% sodium benzoate, according to Susan. At 2%, the percentage of gluconolactone would be roughly 1.75% (the math isn’t quite exact but I’m doing this off the cuff, not with a calculator). See how far up the list the gluconolactone is? Everything below it is going to be less than 1.75%. I know extracts are also used at a very low %, Susan recommending 0.5% for each. So anything around the extracts is probably used at a pretty low usage rate around that same number or lower.

    So, your recipe may actually be much better than the stuff you’re using. It also may feel much heavier on your hair, considering the ingredients they use vs what you’re using and the percentage rates you’ve got in your recipe. So there’s that to think about.

    I think you can get pH meters at pool stores, hardware stores (I think), and online. I still haven’t gotten one but it’s been ruminating around in my head lately….

    Let me know if this helped any, or is confusing, or whatever. Haha! Sometimes I’m writing stuff and it only makes sense to me….haha

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by BelindaSK.
    #22309
    Cynnara
    Participant

    I actually understood it. 😲😳 Whoa. I want a ph meter. The one I want is medium to top grade with changeable prongs depending on use. Yeah, I’m needy.

    I like the recipe overall. Might be slightly too much for me, but then again, SheaMoisture and I love each other. Lol

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