Troubleshooting conditioner

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  • #21442
    Colleen
    Participant

    Does anyone know what a conditioner recipe that’s succumbed to ‘creaming/sedimentation’ would look like, as opposed to separation? I can’t find pictures online. I’ve had recipes separate, where there is an obvious layer of liquid on the bottom, and oils on top. But this time, I have a layer of what looks like foam on top of a thin but fully emulsified mixture. Is this ‘creaming’, or just all the air that got incorporated when I was mixing? This is Marie’s restorative conditioner recipe, btw. Will try to post a picture…squeeze my eyes shut and hope it posts (and isn’t a cat meme by mistake)

    View post on imgur.com

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Colleen.
    #21445
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    I can’t say 100%, but that still looks like separation to me, Colleen. I don’t think a recipe that is supposed to be emulsified should have any layers in it at all. Any time I’ve had a recipe do that or look like that, it separated. Maybe someone else has a different perspective??

    #21635
    Minicoopergirl93
    Participant

    I actually have a different conditioner question, still troubleshooting though. I’ve been doing conditioner-only washing for a few weeks now, but with a store-bought conditioner (I’m still figuring out what my hair needs), and my hair leaves the shower nice and clean and detangled and just the right amount of moisturized. When I try to do this with homemade conditioner, I find my hair leaves the shower clean, but very greasy. I’ve tried different conditioner formulations with grapeseed oil, jojoba oil, coconut oil, etc. I’m going to try castor oil tomorrow. Any advice? Also, any advice on how to make homemade conditioner more de-tangling without adding dimethicone to it?

    #21643
    Colleen
    Participant

    Minicoopergirl, Have you tried broccoli seed oil yet? It’s in Marie’s restorative conditioner recipe and is purported to be a good ‘natural silicone’.

    #21644
    Colleen
    Participant
    #21645
    Colleen
    Participant

    ok, here is the photo again.

    #21652
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    Hey Sarah! Can you tell me your homemade conditioner recipe and also what you use store bought? A few things that come to mind on the DIY condish….what is your emulsifier? Are you using BTMS 50 or ewax? Is your % of oils over 6%?

    To be honest, I have made several conditioners, but have never used one to co-wash with. I also feel that a detangling ingredient is needed in my homemade conditioner, but I have yet to figure one out. I thought about the broccoli seed oil, but I’ve heard the smell is a bit intense, so I figure I wouldn’t like that. Cetrimonium chloride is a detangling ingredient that Susan over at Point of Interest raves about, but I have not bought any. It is my understanding that you need a pH meter to formulate with the Cetab, and I don’t have one at this time. I’ve infused Marshmallow Root and Slippery Elm into water before making that into a conditioner, and that has worked out OK. Not as good as a store bought conditioner at detangling, but better than straight water. I don’t use any -cones in my hair stuff either, so I’m with you on that one! I didn’t think of this before, but maybe some polyquaternium 7? That’s a film former and anti-static conditioning ingredient, so it may help with detangling.

    #21654
    Minicoopergirl93
    Participant

    My emulsifier is Polawax, and I had about 8% Castor oil in this batch. It’s still too greasy, but only barely.

    The store-bought stuff I used was Aussie but that was too greasy sometimes. Currently the best one I’ve used has been my personalized one from Function of Beauty. I asked for ingredients and they gave me the “may contain” list since each bottle is different. Mine was uncolored and only scented with essential oils (smells like rosemary and tea tree and maybe something else?) so the color and fragrance ingredients don’t count towards my current conditioner. The full list is below:

    deionized water, cetyl alcohol, quaternium-87, cetearyl alcohol, behentrimonium chloride, propoxytetramethyl piperdinyl dimethicone, persea gratissima (avocado) oil, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine hydrolyzed quinoa, hydrolyzed adansonia digitata (baobab) seed protein, prunus amygdalus dulcis (sweet almond) extract , hydrolyzed corn starch, beta vulgaris (beet) root extract, hydrolyzed chestnut extract, tamarindus indica (tamarind) fruit extract, hydrolyzed quinoa, argania spinosa (argan) kernel oil, aloe barbadensis (aloe vera) leaf extract, helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil, cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, cocos nucifera (coconut) fruit extract, acacia senegal gum, cetearamidoethyl diethonium hydrolyzed rice protein, butyrospermum parkii (shea) butter unsaponifiables, phospholipids, soybean glycerides, allantoin, glycine soja (soybean) oil, carrageenan, glycerin, amodimethicone, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, panthenyl ethyl ether, dimethiconol meadowfoamate, hydroxypropyl guar, citric acid, peg-60 hydrogenated castor oil, sodium benzoate, phenethyl alcohol, phenoxyethanol, caprylyl glycol, hexylene glycol, trideceth-6, trideceth-12, cetrimonium chloride, cetrimonium bromide, c11-15 pareth-7, potassium sorbate, fragrance, ext. violet 2 (ci 60730), red 40 (ci 16035), red 33 (ci 17200)

    Now that I look over the list again, I see quaternium-87, and you mentioned polyquaternium 7. I’ve never heard of either of them, how similar are the two ingredients?

    #21656
    Minicoopergirl93
    Participant

    I used Polawax and 8% Castor oil. The best conditioner I’ve used is my personalized one from Function of Beauty. It’s quite expensive so I’m trying to avoid buying more of it and just making stuff at home. This is just a sample list below since each bottle is different. Mine was uncolored and scented with essential oils (rosemary and tea tree I think) so the fragrance and color ingredients don’t apply here.

    deionized water, cetyl alcohol, quaternium-87, cetearyl alcohol, behentrimonium chloride, propoxytetramethyl piperdinyl dimethicone, persea gratissima (avocado) oil, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine hydrolyzed quinoa, hydrolyzed adansonia digitata (baobab) seed protein, prunus amygdalus dulcis (sweet almond) extract , hydrolyzed corn starch, beta vulgaris (beet) root extract, hydrolyzed chestnut extract, tamarindus indica (tamarind) fruit extract, hydrolyzed quinoa, argania spinosa (argan) kernel oil, aloe barbadensis (aloe vera) leaf extract, helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil, cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, cocos nucifera (coconut) fruit extract, acacia senegal gum, cetearamidoethyl diethonium hydrolyzed rice protein, butyrospermum parkii (shea) butter unsaponifiables, phospholipids, soybean glycerides, allantoin, glycine soja (soybean) oil, carrageenan, glycerin, amodimethicone, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, panthenyl ethyl ether, dimethiconol meadowfoamate, hydroxypropyl guar, citric acid, peg-60 hydrogenated castor oil, sodium benzoate, phenethyl alcohol, phenoxyethanol, caprylyl glycol, hexylene glycol, trideceth-6, trideceth-12, cetrimonium chloride, cetrimonium bromide, c11-15 pareth-7, potassium sorbate, fragrance, ext. violet 2 (ci 60730), red 40 (ci 16035), red 33 (ci 17200)

    #21688
    BelindaSK
    Participant

    On the oily-ness issue, I’m wondering if the Polawax is the culprit maybe? The stuff you buy from Function of Beauty is made with behentrimonium chloride, which is a cream rinse ingredient, so very little conditioning. I use behentrimonium methosulfate, or BTMS-50, when I make conditioners since it is a conditioning emulsifier. Polawax, I would think, is even heavier than BTMS-50. It feels that way to me when I make a lotion with it, anyway. I would try a different emulsifier and drop the oil amount to less than 6%, or, if you don’t want to get a new emulsifier at this time, drop the oils to 2-3% using the Polawax and see if that helps a bit. Any conditioner I’ve made with BTMS-50 and 6% oils is very rich for my fine hair. I try to stick with oils like avocado, argan, Abyssinian, jojoba, and coconut. Castor is really good too, especially for hair growth. These all have more of an affinity towards hair, or so I’ve read. They work well for my hair. The first conditioner I ever made had no oils at all, just 7% BTMS-50, 2% hydrolyzed oats, 2% panthenol, 2% cetyl alcohol, .5% liquid germall plus, 1% fragrance, & 85.5% water, and that was a good conditioner! Since I’ve started with the Curly Girl Method, though, I think I’d need a wee bit of oils in there since my hair really likes the moisture. With your curly hair, I would say you need a lot of moisture too! Curls LOVE moisture!

    Polyquaternium 7 and polyquaternium 87 are both conditioning agents for hair. I’m attaching info on the different polyquats used in hair products and what they do for hair/skin.

    Info on different polyquats

    As I think on this more, I’m sure I’ll have more to add, but right now I’m falling asleep typing! Haha! Hope this little bit helps!

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